are there any changes/updates on 13-16 800cfi engine?

padden · Aug 9, 2015

I wonder if there are any updates att all in the 800 cfi engine between 13-16?

I snowchecked a Switchback Assault 800 td -16 and i just wonder if the cfi engine in this sled are as unreliable as older cfi 800?

Hope my grammar/spelling is right. //Sweden.

fuledya · Aug 9, 2015

Nope, same old motor issues. I doubt even the 16 axys motor with lightweight crank will be any better, all the parts are interchangeable with the current 800. This is not a NEW motor.

padden · Aug 9, 2015

fuledya said:
Nope, same old motor issues. I doubt the 16 axys motor with lightweight crank will be any better, all the parts are interchangeable with the current 800. This is not a NEW motor.

okey.. I asked the dealer and he said 15-16 cfi was better then previous ones.. i guess he lied then :face-icon-small-dis

i have read at random swedish sled forums that 14cfi> are better than previous cfi.
But i have no real sources on that..

t-revzr · Aug 9, 2015

padden said:
okey.. I asked the dealer and he said 15-16 cfi was better then previous ones.. i guess he lied then :face-icon-small-dis

i have read at random swedish sled forums that 14cfi> are better than previous cfi.
But i have no real sources on that..

14 and up are good to go.

padden · Aug 9, 2015

t-revzr said:
14 and up are good to go.

what exactly is done to 14 and up? pistons? cylinder?

Reg2view · Aug 10, 2015

Since 11, the original CFI-2:

- Different injector system and vendor (12)
- Thicker cylinder skirts (12 and 13, I think, case change for the skirts, too, not sure about the 14)
- Updated pistons (12, 13, and again in 14, by part numbers, all cast, skirt cracking from the 11s and 12s has been reduced)
- Improved mapping (14, tho the map obvious changes every year, 13's had a lean midrange, by 14 they finally seemed to get it close to right)

Just some of the injector and top end changes, rough dates and specifics. More can chime in. Seemed like the 14 and up finally got it close to right with the current designs and electronic controls.

Timbre · Aug 10, 2015

fuledya said:
Nope, same old motor issues. I doubt even the 16 axys motor with lightweight crank will be any better, all the parts are interchangeable with the current 800. This is not a NEW motor.

Are you sure that's accurate? Is it based on facts or hearsay off the internet somewhere? Very reliable sources have said very few parts on the 16 AXYS are interchangeable with the 11-15 Pro engine. Do you ride Polaris, or another brand?

Cheers!

fuledya · Aug 10, 2015

Timbre said:
Are you sure that's accurate? Is it based on facts or hearsay off the internet somewhere? Very reliable sources have said very few parts on the 16 AXYS are interchangeable with the 11-15 Pro engine. Do you ride Polaris, or another brand?

Cheers!

I heard from many reliable sources, and yes, I ride Polaris, is there anything else? LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3hbFJYy08s

Carls Cycle · Aug 10, 2015

This is a completely new motor!

I would have to disagree with the guy claiming they are the same. The youtube video brings up a 2012 SBA? That had the same CFI-2 motor as the Pro, not the Axys. And the 2012 did not have the updated cylinders and pistons that the 13 and up had, which improved reliability. The motor in 14 and 15 was virtually bulletproof in comparison to the earlier models. The 2016 motor is a completely different crankcase, pistons, cylinders, oil delivery system, exhaust valves as what would have been in the Pro's, and the SBA's.

Timbre · Aug 10, 2015

Carls Cycle said:
The 2016 motor is a completely different crankcase, pistons, cylinders, oil delivery system, exhaust valves as what would have been in the Pro's, and the SBA's.

That's the info i remember hearing as well. Thanks for clarifying =)

padden · Aug 10, 2015

Reg2view said:
Since 11, the original CFI-2:

- Different injector system and vendor (12)
- Thicker cylinder skirts (12 and 13, I think, case change for the skirts, too, not sure about the 14)
- Updated pistons (12, 13, and again in 14, by part numbers, all cast, skirt cracking from the 11s and 12s has been reduced)
- Improved mapping (14, tho the map obvious changes every year, 13's had a lean midrange, by 14 they finally seemed to get it close to right)

Just some of the injector and top end changes, rough dates and specifics. More can chime in. Seemed like the 14 and up finally got it close to right with the current designs and electronic controls.

Thanks!. Finally a good answer instead of just saying "it is better than before" etc..

mountaincat 800 · Aug 11, 2015

padden said:
Thanks!. Finally a good answer instead of just saying "it is better than before" etc..

Not one year did they ever address the connecting rod bearings?

mountainhorse · Aug 11, 2015

I didn't see any mass-failure of con rod bearings??

.

mountaincat 800 · Aug 18, 2015

mountainhorse said:
I didn't see any mass-failure of con rod bearings??

.

What's considered a mass failer? I heard of several. Including my own.

mountainhorse · Aug 18, 2015

Mass would be ... it makes it to this forum as a big issue that lots have had happen to their sleds.

The couple that I have seen...at a crank rebuilder... were because of oil issues... in the new sleds, you have to run very good quality oil that has a low pour point.

Remember, the CFi-2 engines do not have any gasoline in the crankcase to help carry the oil around... they are dry except for the Oil.... and that oil has to flow easily... which is why I do not recommend using cheap oil.

Don't get me wrong... you could have been using VES-Gold, Legend, RedLine or other high end oil... and have an engine failure... but much less chance than if you are using an oil that does not meet the needs of the engine. The days of premix and "wet" crankcases are gone... the way we look at oil has to change as well.

On these PRO RIDE mountain sleds (11-15).... we can turn up the oil pump... I like the Ski Doo Cap or external vent on the oil tank...AND use Legend oil.
I like 32:1 as a measured.

And don't believe any "hype" that turning up the oil pump will not add more oil... that is just not true.

.

.

mountaincat 800 · Aug 19, 2015

mountainhorse said:
Mass would be ... it makes it to this forum as a big issue that lots have had happen to their sleds.

The couple that I have seen...at a crank rebuilder... were because of oil issues... in the new sleds, you have to run very good quality oil that has a low pour point.

Remember, the CFi-2 engines do not have any gasoline in the crankcase to help carry the oil around... they are dry except for the Oil.... and that oil has to flow easily... which is why I do not recommend using cheap oil.

Don't get me wrong... you could have been using VES-Gold, Legend, RedLine or other high end oil... and have an engine failure... but much less chance than if you are using an oil that does not meet the needs of the engine. The days of premix and "wet" crankcases are gone... the way we look at oil has to change as well.

On these PRO RIDE mountain sleds (11-15).... we can turn up the oil pump... I like the Ski Doo Cap or external vent on the oil tank...AND use Legend oil.
I like 32:1 as a measured.

And don't believe any "hype" that turning up the oil pump will not add more oil... that is just not true.

.

.

How would you know "for sure" it was an oil issue? In my case it might have been an oil issue or it could have been a bearing fail.
Less than 700 miles bearing was blued from heat. Does that mean low/bad oil or did the bearing just take a sh!t? I'm leaning on the later since I had my oiler turned up and I know it was using oil.

Anyway this thread was about changes to the engines, not mass failures.

Maybe they should look at how they inject the oil into the crankcase. Maybe a high pressure system? It seems to me the way it's injected now the oil just drip's into the case. It should be injected similar to how the fuel is injected so it has a chance to reach the connecting rod bearings. Just a thought. What do you think?

Teth-Air · Aug 19, 2015

mountainhorse said:
I didn't see any mass-failure of con rod bearings??

.

Gotta say there were more than I liked. My 14 and a friends went in the same week. His oiler at stock setting and mine turned up 2 turns. The bearings were blue from the heat. We ride hard but neither had a lot of kms and both use premium synthetic sled oil.

mountainhorse · Aug 19, 2015

I DON'T know it was an oil issue... Which is why I said "Don't get me wrong...." could not have been an oil issue at all.

I've just not heard of any kind of an epidemic of con rod failures... which is independent of the issue on your sled that HAD a failure.

Piston/cylinder skirt failures on the early sleds... yes... on later sleds, not so much... Non-Existant... NO... but not a huge problem.

I've also heard from some people on here that use "Wallmart" oil that claim 3000+ miles on the same pistons and no issues... go figure... but I also feel that that is not the norm as I've heard from some, including engine builders of these 800's that have had oil related failures. HMMM.

hwell:

mountaincat 800 said:
How would you know "for sure" it was an oil issue? In my case it might have been an oil issue or it could have been a bearing fail.
Less than 700 miles bearing was blued from heat. Does that mean low/bad oil or did the bearing just take a sh!t? I'm leaning on the later since I had my oiler turned up and I know it was using oil.

Anyway this thread was about changes to the engines, not mass failures.

Maybe they should look at how they inject the oil into the crankcase. Maybe a high pressure system? It seems to me the way it's injected now the oil just drip's into the case. It should be injected similar to how the fuel is injected so it has a chance to reach the connecting rod bearings. Just a thought. What do you think?

LoudHandle · Aug 19, 2015

mountaincat 800 said:
Not one year did they ever address the connecting rod bearings?

To truly address the con rod bearing bluing phenomenon, You must long rod the crank. The rod ends blue from the angularity / force / and the speed at which the rollers have to move, regardless of the quantity / quality of oil delivered. It is a direct result of the engines architecture; essentially being a big bored / stroked / fuel injected 440-600 from the EDGE days. They did this to keep the weight down but it has some undesirable side effects.

Polaris knew this long before the first CFI was ever made; because the race 795-796-797 (depending on the exact piston used) has the same geometry and did the same thing even with a wet case. They made excellent HP but the Time between rebuilds was very short (nearly every weekend), without long rodding them.

Anything less is just a bandaid. Indy Specialties is the Originator of the long rod. FWIW

mountaincat 800 · Aug 19, 2015

LoudHandle said:
To truly address the con rod bearing bluing phenomenon, You must long rod the crank. The rod ends blue from the angularity / force / and the speed at which the rollers have to move, regardless of the quantity / quality of oil delivered. It is a direct result of the engines architecture; essentially being a big bored / stroked / fuel injected 440-600 from the EDGE days. They did this to keep the weight down but it has some undesirable side effects.

Polaris knew this long before the first CFI was ever made; because the race 795-796-797 (depending on the exact piston used) has the same geometry and did the same thing even with a wet case. They made excellent HP but the Time between rebuilds was very short (nearly every weekend), without long rodding them.

Anything less is just a bandaid. Indy Specialties is the Originator of the long rod. FWIW

question. Isn't the bore and stroke on the suzuk 8 engine nearly identical?

are there any changes/updates on 13-16 800cfi engine?

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