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View Full Version : why dont we ever hear anything about 1200 turbo's


madmini660
10-22-2012, 11:41 AM
way dont we hear anything about the 1200 turbo on snowest think they would be awesome for big power just never hear anything about them

Wheel House Motorsports
10-22-2012, 12:04 PM
just so much money by the time you get them long tracked i think it killed the market for em, didnt get people interested enough to start building. and why invest all that money on a semi known when you could have a rock solid yami that is tried and true.

tukernater
10-22-2012, 12:18 PM
just so much money by the time you get them long tracked i think it killed the market for em, didnt get people interested enough to start building. and why invest all that money on a semi known when you could have a rock solid yami that is tried and true.
Agree with exspence ,but the 1200 motor is very solid .

TBird
10-22-2012, 12:36 PM
Agree with exspence ,but the 1200 motor is very solid .

Yes, it runs real good and is solid, there's pretty many here in north Europe (Sweden and Norway), both Gade's and Summit's.
There's some weight on the ski's, but no one can deny they run hard!

Using Tapatalk on Android ICS pad.

powderlites
10-22-2012, 02:45 PM
Here are some pictures of 1200
www.powderlites.com
250-836-4422

madmini660
10-22-2012, 04:22 PM
love the black one in the xp plastics makes them look sweet dont see the 1200's in the us but there all over up in the north country I hear they will walk all over the nytro because of the 1200's torque and they dont need the aftermarket rods to make big power just put a head shim in and go if thats true that would be awesome

Rotax_Kid
10-22-2012, 07:00 PM
Dave, nice looking machines. In the red and black one, is that one of Chad's tunnels?

As said above, not many 1200's because they are a bit more expensive to build and take quite a bit of work to setup. They are just a bucket of torque though. You need alot of track behind these to keep the torque at bay. I have a few friends who have boosted Nytros and they are a completely different machine in terms of both handling and power.

The Nytro feels more responsive and high strung, whereas the Doo feels almost lazy. Thing is, the Doo with it's torque doesn't tak emuch throttle to get moving.

Handline wise two very different machines. The 1200 feels lighter and more nimble than the Nytro. A good friend jumped off his Nytro and jumped on mine and didn't make it more than 200' before putting mine on it's side trying to pull it over. Granted his is a propane powered beast, but it feels alot more top heavy and more clumsy. Probably a fair maount to do with setup though.

My next machine will be another 1200. They are a pull and go machine and run really well.

MtnDoo
10-22-2012, 10:31 PM
There are a good number of 1200T's around.
Check out DooTalk. Lots of drag racers on them.

Bottom line is that they are expensive, and time-consuming to build. There are several good shops that have them dialed.

The key is to find a shop or builder that will follow through with what they say they will do when you commit $$$ to them. There are a couple of "big-names" that advertise a lot, but only a few that are willing to do anything but "production" kits that are average at best. You'd be surprised who screws their customers. If you're doing a 1200T for the mountains, chances are you're looking for more than an off-the-shelf hop-up. Finding experience above 9500ft is another challenge.

If you want it done right, do your homework and do it yourself.

At the same time, E-Tec Turbos are gaining ground for what many people want if they're not wanting to go all the way w/ a 1200T.

MD.

powderlites
10-23-2012, 06:46 AM
Dave, nice looking machines. In the red and black one, is that one of Chad's tunnels?

As said above, not many 1200's because they are a bit more expensive to build and take quite a bit of work to setup. They are just a bucket of torque though. You need alot of track behind these to keep the torque at bay. I have a few friends who have boosted Nytros and they are a completely different machine in terms of both handling and power.

The Nytro feels more responsive and high strung, whereas the Doo feels almost lazy. Thing is, the Doo with it's torque doesn't tak emuch throttle to get moving.

Handline wise two very different machines. The 1200 feels lighter and more nimble than the Nytro. A good friend jumped off his Nytro and jumped on mine and didn't make it more than 200' before putting mine on it's side trying to pull it over. Granted his is a propane powered beast, but it feels alot more top heavy and more clumsy. Probably a fair maount to do with setup though.

My next machine will be another 1200. They are a pull and go machine and run really well.

That was built with XP tunnel by DLux I think his name is on here.

lookup
10-23-2012, 03:06 PM
I built a 1200 turbo and had it a very short time, mostly because of the marginal snow we get, it was too heavy. It also went to the north

turboxp
10-23-2012, 08:24 PM
I do believe that the cost is the factor that you don't see 1200s around but they do work have rode 800s done up they are sweet but not the power of the 1200.You also have to realize that when you sre 260 lbs of solid muscle well maybe not solid plus gear you need torque and hp.

snow-seeker
10-24-2012, 09:24 AM
I loved my 1200. Dave from Powderlites helped me greatly on it. I would change allot if I was to do it again.

The first thing I would do is start with a stock sled. I didn't, and the repairs of others mistakes cost me more than building from scratch.

If you search and take you time, you can build one for around the same price as a mid level Nytro. I would take one of these over a Nytro any day.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/rtrottier/XR1200%20Turbo%20for%20sale/073231c6.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/rtrottier/XR1200%20Turbo%20for%20sale/995c24c9.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j200/rtrottier/XR1200%20Turbo%20for%20sale/3ad9e168.jpg

Beauford t
10-25-2012, 02:17 PM
Same here, got one,and there is no other sled I have any desire to ride.
got a 2012 pro in the stable(wifes).....yawwn!!! I figured I'd be on it all the time when we were on the little hills but that doesnt happen.
If I didn't build a house this year I would have built another doo 1200t for sure.
Like snow-seeker said so much a guy can different the second time around.
I'll put the Air/water and boost-it on this year, next year build from scratch!
Top Secret Shop and powderlites have both been great and would recommend calling or stopping in. They know the 1200!!!

bnorth
10-25-2012, 08:30 PM
Rode with a sick 1200 last season. Full C3 carbon chassis with a TSS kit on it. 174 3"

adam8781
10-27-2012, 11:23 PM
teh 1200 is boring, its the apex of brp, big slow and heavy, its a trail sled.

Tss and some others have made scary sick 350hp 1200s then put xp body work on them.

Overall, its just another heavy 4 stroke, and it takes sooooo much money to build a mountain worthy 1200= not many of them to talk about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_5ZFHwkF7Q
c3 1200 turbo

backcountrysnowbikes
10-28-2012, 11:02 AM
Ill be running a 1200 this year. 163easy ride powderlites kit tss water to air xp plastic ill post a pic later

jvb
10-28-2012, 05:58 PM
teh 1200 is boring, its the apex of brp, big slow and heavy, its a trail sled.

Tss and some others have made scary sick 350hp 1200s then put xp body work on them.

Overall, its just another heavy 4 stroke, and it takes sooooo much money to build a mountain worthy 1200= not many of them to talk about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_5ZFHwkF7Q
c3 1200 turbo



lol okay. Yeah it takes about 20-25k to build one but whats it cost to build an etech turbo not much less and you have a motor thats not going to need to be rebuilt every year. I guess if you condiser 350hp and reliable boring thats boring.

MtnDoo
10-28-2012, 08:52 PM
350hp is becoming the Valet mode.

Some of the drag racers on DooTalk are running comfortably into the high 400hp, low 500hp range now. Advances in engine control, charge air cooling, knock detection, mechanicals, etc.. are lifting the ceiling. How this translates to mountain application, certainly dial it back a bit.

Weight? Depends on what you do. Mine with a Stage 2 PL kit weighed in at 479 no fuel. Ditched that laggy pig, onto home brew. Not C3 either - that'd drop another 35-45lbs. C3 makes super nice stuff, but takes some serious coin.

;-)

Octanee
10-28-2012, 09:45 PM
when i get workin, im gonna take out a nice loan to build me a 1200 turbo mountain sled, its the sled im dreamin of

powderlites
10-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Here is latest build we are doing for 1200 Skidoo with Stage 4 Innovader kit.
powderlites.com
250-836-4422

RACINSTATION
10-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Looks sharp Dave!

SNOMAN1174
10-30-2012, 06:34 PM
As a former td8 owner I am in love with turbos. In one of the above post someone mentioned that thier t1200 weighed in at 479 no fuel. That is just a lil bit heavier than my td8 was. Our normal riding crew has many 800 turbos ( pro climb, pro rmk, multiple dragons and an m8) which all run great but I gotta say a t1200 is my dream sled! I will own one some day!

Rotax_Kid
10-31-2012, 06:21 AM
Here is latest build we are doing for 1200 Skidoo with Stage 4 Innovader kit.
powderlites.com
250-836-4422

Looks nice Dave. Question of curiousity..are you runing a water cooled air box Does that allow you to bring charge temps down enough to delete the intercooler?

powderlites
10-31-2012, 07:59 PM
Thanks!!
This kit is Stage 4 Innovader kit so airbox Intercooler water to air combo all in one engineered for max flow and very little pressure drop on intercooler core.
runs on seperate water pump and cooler.
http://www.powderlites.com
250-836-4422

Ox
11-06-2012, 06:00 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2011-Ski-Doo-1200-Turbo-Summit-X-163-custom-built-by-Powder-Lites-Inc-/181012628536?pt=Snowmobiles&hash=item2a25318438


.

Bendy
11-07-2012, 10:56 AM
I'm looking at building a 1200 Turbo. I'm considering buying a Renegade 1200. What do I have to do to fit a 2.5 or 3" track under this thing. Is there enough clearance? Do I have to get a longer chaincase? My plan is to long-track it with a skid for the first season. Then Turbo the sled over the summer. Thanks, Ben.

Beauford t
11-11-2012, 03:40 AM
Just install 7tooth 3" pitch drivers and the 3" goes on!
My first 3" blew apart but the second one is just fine so the problem was with the track not the drivers being too small.
I have never rode on one but from what I have read the best bang for the buck skid is going to be the new K-Mod.
High end shocks set up for your specs, adjustable rear arm stop to go from play to climb in no time.

jvb
11-11-2012, 06:44 PM
I'm looking at building a 1200 Turbo. I'm considering buying a Renegade 1200. What do I have to do to fit a 2.5 or 3" track under this thing. Is there enough clearance? Do I have to get a longer chaincase? My plan is to long-track it with a skid for the first season. Then Turbo the sled over the summer. Thanks, Ben.


That wont be much fun riding a heavy long tracked four stroke with a 130ish hp. I would turbo it first and at least just put a stocker long track suspension in it can pick those up for nothing. :)

Rotax_Kid
11-13-2012, 06:40 AM
That wont be much fun riding a heavy long tracked four stroke with a 130ish hp. I would turbo it first and at least just put a stocker long track suspension in it can pick those up for nothing. :)

I would agree. Ran mine for a year with a 2" on it and at altitude it needed more hamsters in the cage. Didn't have 800 power up top. Different story with boost. You really have to gear the machine down stock to go anywhere...I was down to a 49t bottom gear and had to homebrew some clutching to make it go anywhere.

2.5" will fit with the stock drivers/chain case, but it's as far as you can go and there still isn't alot of clearance in the front with the 2.5".

I'm hunting for a good low mileage 1200 right now and they are hard to come by. Most seem to be asking the same price for a used as a new machine. Avoid the 09's if you are starting a new build. There isn't any big issues with them, but there were some piece that were updated in 10/11 such as the water pump gear, oil cooler, and valve cover.

Bendy
11-13-2012, 11:13 AM
Thanks for all the input. I'm gonna shop around for a 1200.

turboxp
11-16-2012, 02:35 PM
You don't see to many of them but they are a lot of fun!!!!

powderlites
11-30-2012, 09:42 AM
Xmas is going to be great for someone!!
powderlites.com
250-836-4422

jvb
11-30-2012, 06:55 PM
Xmas is going to be great for someone!!
powderlites.com
250-836-4422

lol you got that in your apartment :) whats are those running boards?

cilius66
12-11-2012, 05:39 AM
I have been looking into buying a 1200, I am now riding a Nytro 180turbo. The nytro is a bulletproof sled with the 180 kit but I cant keep up with the XP and the Polaris when it get tight. (And it is not just the rider). But I have been reading that the 1200 got a heavy nose, is that compare to the XP or Nytro? I have not had the chanse to ride a 1200 yet.

1100
12-12-2012, 12:03 AM
They remind me of an RT 1000 more then a nytro or xp, I really liked the handling of the one I drove.

bish
12-19-2012, 08:25 AM
I had an '05 RT1000 162 for a few years and then traded for a 800xp. I would trade even up to go back to my RT 1000. I will be the first to admit that it was a "school bus" but one you learned how to use the sled to maneuver I could run in the trees with the 144s and 153s.

catnfool
01-08-2013, 11:45 PM
I like the fact that the heat is away from the gas tank with this powderlite kit!! How loud are they? WE NEED MORE VIDS:face-icon-small-hap thanks

Wally
01-15-2013, 05:34 PM
teh 1200 is boring, its the apex of brp, big slow and heavy, its a trail sled.

Tss and some others have made scary sick 350hp 1200s then put xp body work on them.

Overall, its just another heavy 4 stroke, and it takes sooooo much money to build a mountain worthy 1200= not many of them to talk about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_5ZFHwkF7Q
c3 1200 turbo

As of the 10th. of Oct. the Ultimate Ski-Doo is now Wally's Ultimate. I have had two turbo Apexs, they are fun, but if you really want Torque, the 1200
is the way to go.:face-icon-small-win

spacehog21
01-17-2013, 01:39 PM
I've been running mine turboed since 2010
excellent sled - plenty of power and reliable

It's always the trailbreaker in the mountians or trees when it snows a few feet - putting down first tracks
If not for this sled we would not be able to get to a lot of good riding spots.

cortez
01-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Thanks for all the input. I'm gonna shop around for a 1200.

theres a turbo 1200 sitting at the dealership in kelowna. banner recreation.. think they are asking around 18K

2Thetopp
01-17-2013, 03:53 PM
theres a turbo 1200 sitting at the dealership in kelowna. banner recreation.. think they are asking around 18K

I saw this on craigslist Seattle, low miles, install your own turbo!
1200 ski-doo XP - $7000 (Cashmere,wa)

2009 Ski-doo 1200
Bought new 1 year ago
162"x15"x2 1/4" track
light weight exhaust
light weight battery
ice age rails
all new XP hood and side panels
6" riser and bars
new 36" a arms and new shocks
280 miles
O.B.O
Would make a great turbo sled

Thanks David 509-264-1069

powderlites
04-26-2013, 12:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sftRaEqSr24
Video of stage 3 skidoo
One of the first turbo kits done in XP Plastics by Brad

powderlites
04-27-2013, 02:22 PM
Here is video of the latest build getting ready to ride.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f57hqa8ap_I&feature=youtu.be
250-836-4422

Woodsie84
11-02-2013, 12:34 PM
Any body that owns a 1200 doo with t.s.s set up want to compare with my powderlites motec 1200 ? Curious to see how they differ in power. Usually ride in revy once a month.

backcountryislife
11-02-2013, 06:46 PM
Not going to claim this is an end all be all situation, but A good friend of mine has a 1200 with a PL turbo that has NEVER run right. This sled has been to every turbo guy within 100+ miles and they've been in touch with pl more times than I could count, many of those times being told they had to buy something else each time.

#1I could never in good concience recommend PL for a turbo, but if you did... make sure you're close to someone who knows them very well. My friend has been through absolute hell and I've NEVER seen this sled run a whole day without an issue. Most guys I ride with here are boosted, and even the guys with old first gen 2 stroke sleds haven't had the issues he has.

Sorry to post such a negative post, but I've never seen a worse setup, and it's hard to see him go through this with no real assistance from PL aside from being told to buy more stuff each time.

Buy a 2 stroke.:/

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

jvb
11-02-2013, 07:42 PM
[QUOTE=backcountryislife;3432693]Not going to claim this is an end all be all situation, but A good friend of mine has a 1200 with a PL turbo that has NEVER run right. This sled has been to every turbo guy within 100+ miles and they've been in touch with pl more times than I could count, many of those times being told they had to buy something else each time.

#1I could never in good concience recommend PL for a turbo, but if you did... make sure you're close to someone who knows them very well. My friend has been through absolute hell and I've NEVER seen this sled run a whole day without an issue. Most guys I ride with here are boosted, and even the guys with old first gen 2 stroke sleds haven't had the issues he has.

Sorry to post such a negative post, but I've never seen a worse setup, and it's hard to see him go through this with no real assistance from PL aside from being told to buy more stuff each time.


Ha well if the sled has an rb3 and stalls all the time I can almost guarantee you the problem. Early airboxes broke and that intercooler in the front gets real heat soaked and kills performance. I broke one of my vents out once and the intercooler was covered in snow all day, was like a different sled. Im sure dave has the rbr thing figured out and the stalling thing should be rectified. Although I have seen some brand new sleds with the rapid race stall the exact same. I have had it happen to me hundreds of times. Recently installed the boost it on my 1200 and am really impressed with it. Two strokes are lighter but I bet my boosted 4 stroked will last a bit longer than your two :) And you aren't ever going to have the torque of the 1200!

backcountryislife
11-02-2013, 07:58 PM
[QUOTE=backcountryislife;3432693]Not going to claim this is an end all be all situation, but A good friend of mine has a 1200 with a PL turbo that has NEVER run right. This sled has been to every turbo guy within 100+ miles and they've been in touch with pl more times than I could count, many of those times being told they had to buy something else each time.

#1I could never in good concience recommend PL for a turbo, but if you did... make sure you're close to someone who knows them very well. My friend has been through absolute hell and I've NEVER seen this sled run a whole day without an issue. Most guys I ride with here are boosted, and even the guys with old first gen 2 stroke sleds haven't had the issues he has.

Sorry to post such a negative post, but I've never seen a worse setup, and it's hard to see him go through this with no real assistance from PL aside from being told to buy more stuff each time.


Ha well if the sled has an rb3 and stalls all the time I can almost guarantee you the problem. Early airboxes broke and that intercooler in the front gets real heat soaked and kills performance. I broke one of my vents out once and the intercooler was covered in snow all day, was like a different sled. Im sure dave has the rbr thing figured out and the stalling thing should be rectified. Although I have seen some brand new sleds with the rapid race stall the exact same. I have had it happen to me hundreds of times. Recently installed the boost it on my 1200 and am really impressed with it. Two strokes are lighter but I bet my boosted 4 stroked will last a bit longer than your two :) And you aren't ever going to have the torque of the 1200!

Two years nonstop having this thing in and out of numerous different shops... if it were as obvious as something that would be diagnosed from one non technical post... I'm even more disgusted with PL than before.

I've run turbo 2's... no way they'll last as long as a boosted 4, but the 4 stroke guys I run with wrench more than we have on our 11-14 psi sleds. I'm not a fan, but the two closest boosted 4 strokes absolutely suck, so they've put a bad taste in my mouth. One is a PL 1200, other is an Impulse Nytro. I really would love to ride a good running 1200 though... guessing it would be a blast!

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

jvb
11-02-2013, 08:07 PM
my original pl sled wasn't the greatest had some issues that's for sure. My latest tss 1200 has been pretty much flawless and I had the rb3 on it for the first year. Not to many people know a lot about the 1200 so I imagine it could be tough. Luckily im not to far from revy and i make a few trip there a year so it makes it bit easier to deal with when you can take to the person that built and say you make it run. The boost it is just so simple and easy so tuning is a breaze. Whats your buddys problems?

backcountryislife
11-02-2013, 08:20 PM
my original pl sled wasn't the greatest had some issues that's for sure. My latest tss 1200 has been pretty much flawless and I had the rb3 on it for the first year. Not to many people know a lot about the 1200 so I imagine it could be tough. Luckily im not to far from revy and i make a few trip there a year so it makes it bit easier to deal with when you can take to the person that built and say you make it run. The boost it is just so simple and easy so tuning is a breaze. Whats your buddys problems?

Honestly, too many to list... I've just been on the periphery of the situation, and just haven't seen it make it through a single day in 2 years. (Not an exaggeration) 2 stroke guys I butt in and help, but don't know enough about that machine to pretend ;) when I've ridden it, it has died after about 5 seconds at wfo. If I recall it was an issue of letting off too fast last time I rode it, time before was something else.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

MtnDoo
11-02-2013, 09:50 PM
Backcountryislife,

Same experience. We got the PL kit, installed it and found out the MAP was nothing even close to useable. We start riding 2000+ft above their highest. It was so rich we had a fuel fire at one point and ditched it. Tons of reports of RB3 issues. Tried another project with them and got totally hosed, complete run-around. So, live & learn. I think the folks who are having success with PL are within driving range of them for the most part with a few possible exceptions. They would answer the phone, but we never really found much progress. Ended going a totally different direction. Lots of good 1200 Turbo info/discussion @ D00+alk.

It really is amazing how much progress has occurred with the Aerocharger & other kits on the 800 E-Tec's. I think that took some of the wind out of the 1200 sails for the mountain market. Plus the time & expense of building the chassis, etc..

Attached are two pics of very recent dyno runs on two similar sleds built by another outfit. The first is 325 HP on pump gas, and the second is 550hp on C16. Different sleds, different tunes, setup, etc.. Both report leaving a lot on the table for safe runs. Both sleds are well beyond your typical bolt-on "kit", and have a lot of time and investment put into them. Just thought I'd share…

MD.

BTW - 605 HP @ crank, 42 PSI, 8380 RPM… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4SqIaWvV1Y#t=18

backcountryislife
11-02-2013, 10:08 PM
Dude... 550??? Unreal. That would be sick.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

Woodsie84
11-02-2013, 10:25 PM
my original pl sled wasn't the greatest had some issues that's for sure. My latest tss 1200 has been pretty much flawless and I had the rb3 on it for the first year. Not to many people know a lot about the 1200 so I imagine it could be tough. Luckily im not to far from revy and i make a few trip there a year so it makes it bit easier to deal with when you can take to the person that built and say you make it run. The boost it is just so simple and easy so tuning is a breaze. Whats your buddys problems?

Would you consider meeting in revy sometime to compare performance difference ? Just curious of 2 different set ups.

Woodsie84
11-02-2013, 10:55 PM
[QUOTE=jvb;3432730]

Two years nonstop having this thing in and out of numerous different shops... if it were as obvious as something that would be diagnosed from one non technical post... I'm even more disgusted with PL than before.

I've run turbo 2's... no way they'll last as long as a boosted 4, but the 4 stroke guys I run with wrench more than we have on our 11-14 psi sleds. I'm not a fan, but the two closest boosted 4 strokes absolutely suck, so they've put a bad taste in my mouth. One is a PL 1200, other is an Impulse Nytro. I really would love to ride a good running 1200 though... guessing it would be a blast!

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

To bad you didn't live closer I'd let you take mine for a rip. I bought it off a guy claiming it ran flawless, not the case when I took it out the first time. In the end I ended up taking off the rbr and putting on a motec and have never looked back. The video powderlites posted on here in April was me in the airport chutes running 15 psi. It flat out works now. Wouldn't trade it for any other sled. Doo talk has lots info on the 1200's if you wanna take a look. Mntdoo is going to have one bad a$$ sled when he's done by looks of his build too.

jvb
11-02-2013, 10:56 PM
Would you consider meeting in revy sometime to compare performance difference ? Just curious of 2 different set ups.

sure but my trips aren't planned or anything when the snow is good I go type thing

jvb
11-02-2013, 11:04 PM
and all the stalling issues are all map related not so much the rb3 itself. Takes lots of time to get the map right. And theres nothing more frustrating then your sled stalling all the time. Woodsie im sure the motec is great as it should be for what 5k? But I like the simplicity of boost it can instanlly change whatever I want on the hill no laptop needed. How does the knock sensor work with the motec. Has it ever went off on you?

MtnDoo
11-02-2013, 11:34 PM
110% agreed. Reports coming back on the motec have been very positive for the past several seasons. There are a few other stand-alone's that are seeing success too, but motec & PSC seem to have done their homework and are showing results. Both the dyno sheets above are from motec controlled motors measured at the secondary. They didn't need to lean them out or rattle em' to death to make power.

The knock sensor allows for real-time corrections on a per-cylendar basis. Closed loop lambda, electronic boost control, data-logging, etc.. www.motec.com provides a lot of good baseline info on setup/tuning. Tons of 1200 discussion on DT; just do a quick search. Mostly low altitude drag/trail applications though.

MD.

Woodsie - my PL/RB3 would have barely made it across the meadow burping, farting & spitting fuel. The other advancement is certainly in cooling the charge. The recent air-water IC's seem to be working well from several suppliers for the mountain application. Glad you found a solution that worked!

Woodsie84
11-03-2013, 05:39 AM
and all the stalling issues are all map related not so much the rb3 itself. Takes lots of time to get the map right. And theres nothing more frustrating then your sled stalling all the time. Woodsie im sure the motec is great as it should be for what 5k? But I like the simplicity of boost it can instanlly change whatever I want on the hill no laptop needed. How does the knock sensor work with the motec. Has it ever went off on you?

I know it's pricy, but so is a new motor. Great thing about knock control is that it retards timing and showers the cylinder with fuel before it starts to detonate. Being able to run 19 psi on pump junk and never having to worry if the octane is actually what they say it is at the pumps. As for for tuning, I've never had to do any! No matter the altitude, temp, humidity, it runs perfect every time. If I want to push my limits I send my data log to the guy that sells motec and that same day he tweaks my mapping and settings, e-mails me back, takes literally 4 min to install in ECM, done deal. The service you get when someone buys a motec is very good. It data logs everything for as u ride ( limited data though) and you hook up when you get off mountain and take a look at everything. I am now putting a water to air on mine as my charge temps were through the roof. I have nothing against boost-it products they flat out work, but if you want ultimate performance and piece of mind that ur sled will never die from deto motec is the way to go and you will never regret it.

Mtndoo I see you went with a TSS water to air intercooler, curious to see what your charge temps are going to be with that system at higher boost. I'm putting on a water to air from Martin that he built for me that's good for 30 psi with charge temps at a max of 25-30 C. Hoping to compare to some yamaha's this year to see how it does against them. Let it snow let it snow!!

jvb
11-03-2013, 09:43 AM
I know anytime I touch my water to air that it is cool to the touch maybe a little warm at times. With that old intercooler up front you couldn't even touch it! How many lbs you normally run woodsie and what kind of track speed you normally see? I guess should ask what size track you got as well.

Woodsie84
11-03-2013, 09:54 AM
I know anytime I touch my water to air that it is cool to the touch maybe a little warm at times. With that old intercooler up front you couldn't even touch it! How many lbs you normally run woodsie and what kind of track speed you normally see? I guess should ask what size track you got as well.

Most I've run is 15psi cause my charge temps were to high to go anymore safely. I've honestly never looked at my speed, usually watch where I'm going.. Lol. Just a 163 2/12 camo with ez-ryde. It seems to work good, only had it one season. I didn't want a 174 cause I do lots of tree riding with my buddies. So hopefully this year with my new water/air ill boost it up around 20psi on ave gas.

jvb
11-03-2013, 10:11 AM
yeah my intercooler with that old style was always crazy hot. Pack it full of snow always helped :) Yeah I always run around 16-20 on 110 pretty fun. You run a 2871?

Woodsie84
11-03-2013, 10:24 AM
yeah my intercooler with that old style was always crazy hot. Pack it full of snow always helped :) Yeah I always run around 16-20 on 110 pretty fun. You run a 2871?

Ya I've got PL header and exhaust , airbox, 2871 turbo, will hopefully have my new air box by mid dec, my water/air intercooler should be here anyday now so I can get it installed. I've only ever ran ave gas, never tried 110. Rbr I could only 16 psi on ave gas, now with motec and knock control I can now run up to 21 psi safely on ave gas. Should be a fun season! Will have to try meet up in revy if it ever works out.

Reeb
11-03-2013, 02:45 PM
That sucks that some have had issues.
My buddy built his 1200 with a PL kit. Nothing but smiles since the first time we rode it!

PL is just over an hour away, and customer support is important. It helps that we ride the elevations that PL has tested in(we ride the same areas) but it's been nothing but a handful of fun!

People tend to forget(not that I'm condoning bad customer service) that mod sleds are still MOD sleds. Having an aptitude for knowing how mechanics works is still needed just as much today as it was 20 years ago. Otherwise you end up with a poor running sled and a forum to bitch about it on.

I guess it's always been this way, only now there's social media available to vent our problems. Back then you sold your nightmare for pennies on the dollar, or you put your thinking cap on and figured out your problems.(If customer service wasn't there)

To those that have figured it out, you prolly were the same guys figuring out your sleds and bikes since the beginning of time. You deserve mod sleds. The others....well....stock sleds work just GREAT!

MtnDoo
11-03-2013, 07:49 PM
Reeb - all good points, and nice looking 1200 too! You and I have both been at this long enough to tell the difference between good customer service and crap. Glad the locals up there are having the good luck we couldn't enjoy. Several in Colorado have reported sour experiences. Live & learn, I guess..

When you do a high-dollar deal(custom race kit) based on relentless (apparently false) advertising, put down cash, wait, wait patiently, deal with excuse after excuse and then get buried in a ton of contradictary fibs from the vendor with no parts shipping mid-season it's tough to cut much slack. Being able to walk up to the shop face-to-face is apparently required for some shops to perform. I've built mods for many years, never had such an experience before. On the earlier project (PL stage 2), the MAP was useless - so far off the sled would barely start or run and we made the mods (sans PL) to get it running ok before ditching it. Hearing about cracked air boxes, RB3 issues, cooling issues, etc.. confirmed the decision. They do make a nice header though.

All that aside, the net-net is that the 1200 is very much a viable platform to boost for mountain application. Several shops (incl. our dear friends at PL & others) have had success with them. There is often a bit of weight penalty that seems to be less of a concern to trail/ditch/drag riders as compared to a boosted 800 E-tec, but the 800 won't get to the pwr/trq levels the 1200 sees. But the weight can be mitigated if someone really wants to and you end up with much lighter sled than other MFG's 4-strokes. I'm glad Ski-doo continues to produce the 4-Tec motor and the aftermarket continues to push the limits!

Pray4snow!!

MD.

Rotax_Kid
11-05-2013, 06:12 AM
I had 2 MCX 1200's. Both were small 180 kits, but we built a few 250's as well. The 180's were flawless. One we still have, the other I sold as it was simply time for a change. I ran that machine with a 146 x 2.3 and most of the time went anywhere anyone else I rode with went on a 154/163. I sold that machine with 3000 miles on it, our other one had 4800 miles on it. Turbo was installed at 600 miles. I spent one day setting up the wastegate, after that it was add fuel, check oil, pull and go. I never had anything break, bend, shear, hell, the first belt I changed at 1500 miles after abusing it to no end trying countless gearing and clutching setups in dry/wet snow.

Problems I did find - heat - the panels are too tight on these machines. No matter if you go water-air, air-air, or no intercooler (no idea why this is even being sold) the panels need venting...there is so much heat that comes out from under the hood and it has no where to go.
Other problems - chain stretch - I could get close to a half inch out of the tensioner per year if I started with a new chain. They should have stuck with the wider chain design from the 07 XRS.

I'm on a 800 Etec this year. I wanted another 4 stroke, but couldn't hold out another year waiting for a 1200 replacement (it's in model year 6 now). If we don't see one in spring, I'll probably scoop up a low mileage used one..they go pretty cheap and build another. Ideally, I wouldn't decompress. Throttle response takes too big of a hit IMO. I would build another 180 kit (they actually spit out about 220), water-air airbox and Motec the thing so I could run any fuel I wanted to it. In my mind this would be a bulletproof setup...not the most economically efficient setup, but it would flatout work.

Reeb
11-05-2013, 11:36 AM
I don't wanna be the first 900 ACE customer to turbo it, but I think I may get to be A customer with a 900 Turbo.

Rotax_Kid
11-05-2013, 02:21 PM
I don't wanna be the first 900 ACE customer to turbo it, but I think I may get to be A customer with a 900 Turbo.

If we would have seen a few more gerbils stock..like 120hp, I may have bit on one of those...it did cross my mind for a few weeks...but boosting 90hp just isn't going to take a guy too far.

Reeb
11-05-2013, 03:15 PM
Yeah I just don't know enough about the motor to speculate too much. The Sea-Doo world is raving about it, and the potential for more HP in a naturally aspirated form. Like I said, I'm gonna hafta see how it works for others before I spend the money. The only thing that really perks my ears is hearing the flatlander rags absolutely love the engine. They think it's the best thing to ever grace the snow. The lack of front end weight is what got me thinking about it.

turbo800
11-05-2013, 05:46 PM
From what I've gathered of the ACE line, it wasn't designed for performance or the mountains. The 600 ACE is basically the Yellowstone(FS) go to trail sled. It has low low emissions. Low power. Nearly bulletproof, and the fleet doesn't need replaced for close to 8 years.

I'm not saying something useful couldn't be make of the 900 ACE, but in stock for it leaves a bit to be desired. Personally, if it was supposed to be 900cc's, why not a twin? That would be 450cc's per cylinder. Give it a similar bore/stroke to a modern 4 stroke dirt bike. Bam, you should be making 110+ hp. Heck, even Cat has a 1100 twin 4 stroke...

MtnDoo
11-06-2013, 08:46 AM
New, for 2006!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/recreation/off-road/1278041-3

Woodsie84
11-20-2013, 10:40 AM
218084

Got my water to air all plumbed in ready to go.