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View Full Version : Power valves on 727 - 600


donbrown
09-06-2012, 11:42 AM
What are they thinking ... two 10 mm wrenched bolts holding the power valves on?

How much can you tighten these bolts?

LoudHandle
09-06-2012, 06:58 PM
What are they thinking ... two 10 mm bolts holding the power valves on?

How much can you tighten these bolts?

They are plenty as they see no pressure to speak of. Good and snug is plenty, don't have the manual in front of me but like 10-12 ft/#'s from memory.

richracer1
09-06-2012, 07:41 PM
What are they thinking ... two 10 mm bolts holding the power valves on?

How much can you tighten these bolts?

Really, 2 - 10mm bolts???? Why does your sled have such big bolts for the exhaust valves? That's almost a 7/16" diameter bolt. My sled has 6mm diameter bolts, a little smaller than 5/16". Now I do use a 10mm wrench to tighten/loosen them.

LoudHandle
09-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Really, 2 - 10mm bolts???? Why does your sled have such big bolts for the exhaust valves? That's almost a 7/16" diameter bolt. My sled has 6mm diameter bolts, a little smaller than 5/16". Now I do use a 10mm wrench to tighten/loosen them.

I got you now. Really, that is ridiculous. I was thinking the 10mm wrench for the 6mm bolts on the stock cylinder. They must have machined it out to the size of the hollow dowel pin size? and using the large bolt to locate and hold it instead?

donbrown
09-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Really, 2 - 10mm bolts???? Why does your sled have such big bolts for the exhaust valves? That's almost a 7/16" diameter bolt. My sled has 6mm diameter bolts, a little smaller than 5/16". Now I do use a 10mm wrench to tighten/loosen them.

You are correct the wrench is 10mm

richracer1
09-06-2012, 07:58 PM
You are correct the wrench is 10mm

Just giving you some crap, I'm bored. Most will understand what you meant.

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:00 PM
I got you now. Really, that is ridiculous. I was thinking the 10mm wrench for the 6mm bolts on the stock cylinder. They must have machined it out to the size of the hollow dowel pin size? and using the large bolt to locate and hold it instead?

I was kidding with him, I knew what he meant.

donbrown
09-06-2012, 08:07 PM
I was kidding with him, I knew what he meant.

Yes Staff Sargent !

donbrown
09-06-2012, 08:11 PM
They are plenty as they see no pressure to speak of. Good and snug is plenty, don't have the manual in front of me but like 10-12 ft/#'s from memory.

This makes sense.

I have yet to ride it BUT it seems the oil blowby (based on the oil build up around the exhaust hose) is quite alot !

Is this common on a 727?

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:11 PM
Yes Staff Sargent !

That would be Master Sergeant to you!!!

donbrown
09-06-2012, 08:12 PM
That would be Master Sergeant to you!!!

Oh sorry Master Sargent !

I was in the NAVY ... I learned PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY ...

Are you sure the message had 10mm wrenched bolt or will the quotes get me busted?

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:17 PM
Oh sorry Master Sargent !

I was in the NAVY ... I learned PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY ...

Are you sure the message had 10mm wrenched bolt or will the quotes get me busted?

Sorry bud, the quotes don't change even though you edited the OP.

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:22 PM
This makes sense.

I have yet to ride it BUT it seems the oil blowby (based on the oil build up around the exhaust hose) is quite alot !

Is this common on a 727?

Yep, it's a common thing. I routed the vent line from the solenoid out of the engine compartment. Look for the hose sticking out by the front upper A-arm mount. The hole already existed, I just filed it out so the hose fits tight.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/richracer1/100_0330.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b370/richracer1/100_0331.jpg

LoudHandle
09-06-2012, 08:25 PM
That sounds wrong you may want to check for a bad diaphragm. All the oil should be on the bottom side of the diaphragm. As I believe the 727 is based on the 600HO and it's solenoid actuated valves. So the hose should only have the vacuum from the intake tract working on when functioning correctly.

I believe you are sucking dirty oil and carbon out of the crankcase / cylinder and recycling it through to the intake side. Check the diaphragm for holes or rips or incorrect assembly that would allow this passage.

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:33 PM
That sounds wrong you may want to check for a bad diaphragm. All the oil should be on the bottom side of the diaphragm. As I believe the 727 is based on the 600HO and it's solenoid actuated valves. So the hose should only have the vacuum from the intake tract working on when functioning correctly.

I believe you are sucking dirty oil and carbon out of the crankcase / cylinder and recycling it through to the intake side. Check the diaphragm for holes or rips or incorrect assembly that would allow this passage.

Unless the carbed version is different, there is no hose with vacuum to/from the intake track on the CFI models. The solenoid just allows venting to the atmosphere to keep the valves "closed/down". The ECU activates the solenoid to stop that venting so the small amount of exhaust pressure will push on the bellows thus lifting/opening the exhaust valves - this can vary from sled to sled, but it's some where around 7k RPM. The '02 600 RMK I had had NO hoses on the valves at all, the valves worked strictly from exhaust pressure and spring rates.

richracer1
09-06-2012, 08:37 PM
This makes sense.

I have yet to ride it BUT it seems the oil blowby (based on the oil build up around the exhaust hose) is quite alot !

Is this common on a 727?

Don, if the mess is up front under the exhaust pipe, that's normal blow-by. If you have an oily mess on the exhaust valve housing, then you have a bad bellows and need to replace it - I recommend replacing both at the same time.

LoudHandle
09-06-2012, 08:40 PM
Okay, sorry for the last post. Most of my experience has been with the pre-CFI sleds, as the racers and carbed versions worked on vacuum from the intake side. I wonder why they chose to deviate from that? It was a cleaner on everything as I remember.

MORSNO
09-06-2012, 10:05 PM
Oh sorry Master Sargent !

I was in the NAVY ... I learned PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY ...

Are you sure the message had 10mm wrenched bolt or will the quotes get me busted?


I have to step up for my fellow Master Sergeant (retired), that would be "Chief" for you Navy types.

Word on the flight line was that Sergeant was too hard for Navy guys to spell, so they used Chief for their top 3. Just a little service humour.... :face-icon-small-ton

donbrown
09-07-2012, 11:26 AM
Don, if the mess is up front under the exhaust pipe, that's normal blow-by. If you have an oily mess on the exhaust valve housing, then you have a bad bellows and need to replace it - I recommend replacing both at the same time.

I checked the bellows and they are not cracked and the oil is on the bottom (where it should be draining to)

Just seems like this thing leaks alot.

I took the drain line out of the solenoid and put it thru the melted front radiator delete cover till I figure out a better exit port.

donbrown
09-07-2012, 11:27 AM
So ... getting lots of oil out of the exhaust connections ... gonna check the amount of oil being delivered.

donbrown
09-07-2012, 11:41 AM
I have to step up for my fellow Master Sergeant (retired), that would be "Chief" for you Navy types.

Word on the flight line was that Sergeant was too hard for Navy guys to spell, so they used Chief for their top 3. Just a little service humour.... :face-icon-small-ton

Master Chief !!! :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

Ya you wogs have weak sea legs and besides you all smell like civilians to me.
:usa2::usa2::usa2::usa2::usa2::usa2:

Nothing like the smell of 400 sailors stuck in a tube for 3 months with a couple nuclear power plant with EVERYTHING venting inside. :censored: Better yet nothing like the life of 8000 sailors on the love boat with 90 aircraft (JP5 is not a water contaminant on carriers) and 8 nuclear reactors for months and months and months. :bolt:

flight deck wog flight deck

MORSNO
09-07-2012, 10:02 PM
Nothing like the smell of 400 sailors stuck in a tube for 3 months

So 400 sailors go down 200 smelly couples surface? :face-icon-small-ton :usa2:

If you have excessive oil coming out of the drain tube, you need to check the oil pump adjustment and cable. It will go full oil if the cable fails, better than going to no oil, but excessive. Have you also replaced the springs between the bellows and blades? They will rust from moisture going into the little vent hole on the end.

donbrown
09-08-2012, 12:45 AM
So 400 sailors go down 200 smelly couples surface? :face-icon-small-ton :usa2:

If you have excessive oil coming out of the drain tube, you need to check the oil pump adjustment and cable. It will go full oil if the cable fails, better than going to no oil, but excessive. Have you also replaced the springs between the bellows and blades? They will rust from moisture going into the little vent hole on the end.

The springs are the "purple " ones? Need to order them as they are very rusted.

Where is the oil pump cable?


How can 400 go down ... wouldn't 200 go down while the others wait their turn?

LoudHandle
09-08-2012, 12:48 AM
At least on the pre-IQ sleds it comes off a splitter box on the throttle cable. Should be easy enough to trace. Follow from throttle flipper down.

MORSNO
09-08-2012, 09:07 AM
The springs are the "purple " ones? Need to order them as they are very rusted.

Where is the oil pump cable?


The thread link below is a wealth of information. Post #1 has a picture of the oil pump adjustment and a how to.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177443

donbrown
10-11-2012, 11:50 PM
The thread link below is a wealth of information. Post #1 has a picture of the oil pump adjustment and a how to.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177443

Starting Line Products Exhaust Valve Springs - Pink 14-117

4.7 lbs going to 7.1 inch pounds all the way out.