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View Full Version : Installation and Review: Simmons Gen III Flexi-Ski


christopher
01-12-2011, 02:48 PM
Last May I placed an advance order for a pair of the Simmons Gen III Flexi-Skis for my Yamaha Nytro after having heard some wonderful comments from test riders who had access to prototype versions last winter.

Today, my order arrived!

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:04 PM
As with most good things, the skis arrived in a plain brown box!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20852

Skis came with NO packing material, just slid into the box.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20853


One thing that really surprised me is that there is NO documentation of any kind. Not so much as a note from Simmons, just the box and the skis.

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:07 PM
In the box were 2 mirror image skis.
I say mirror image as they are identical, but OPPOSITE.
They is a Left ski and a Right ski!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20854

And the two skis are CLEARLY marked so there is no mistaking which one goes on which side of the sled.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20855

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:07 PM
The mounting plate is "robust" if not very sturdy!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20857

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:09 PM
The bottom of these skis is clearly what sets them apart from everything else on the market. They have dual keels that are Asymmetrical, which is why the skis are labeled Left and Right.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20858

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20859

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:11 PM
The small carbide.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20870

The Long Carbide.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20871


Inside width of the dual Keels.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20872

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:12 PM
Ski in profile
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20863



http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20864

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20865

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:13 PM
Comparing the Yamaha OEM ski to the new Simmons Gen III Ski.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20862

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20861

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:15 PM
Side by Side of the OEM and the Simmons lined up at the mounting bolt.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20877

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20876

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20873

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20878

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:16 PM
Yamaha OEM Ski
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20914

New Simmons Gen III Ski
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20866

Total Weight Gain = 2.2lbs PER SKI

So about 4 and a half pounds more on your sled.

christopher
01-12-2011, 03:17 PM
Next I will get the old skis off the sled and mount the new ones.
This weekend I should have 3 days of on trail and off trail riding at the SnoWest Forum ride in West Yellowstone to TRY out these new skis.

christopher
01-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Why does work always have to interfere with the important things in life, like mounting your new skis??

Scott
01-13-2011, 11:18 AM
So when they are mounted is the short keel on the inside or the outside?

slash
01-13-2011, 12:27 PM
Why does work always have to interfere with the important things in life, like mounting your new skis??

W O R K ???????

christopher
01-13-2011, 12:43 PM
WORK = Dirty Four Letter Word.

But, things are calm now, and I am headed down to MOUNT my new skies!!

christopher
01-13-2011, 12:44 PM
So when they are mounted is the short keel on the inside or the outside?

Short Keel goes on the OUTSIDE edge of the ski.

christopher
01-13-2011, 04:14 PM
Sled the sled lift in and jacked her up a couple inches off the ground to remove the OEM skis.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20906

The OEM ski comes off with very little effort.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20907

christopher
01-13-2011, 04:17 PM
With the OEM ski off the sled, the rubber bushing has to be removed to be used on the Simmons.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20909

Nut comes off and the bolt slides out
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20910

And the OEM Bushing drops right into place.
PAY ATTENTION when you do this, as the bushing is NOT symmetrical!
Make sure you insert it in the same orientation that you took it out of the OEM skis or you will end up doing this whole process twice like I did!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20911

christopher
01-13-2011, 04:20 PM
With the use of the Sled Lift I slowly lowered the spindal back down into the bushing only to find that it did not fit.

With both skis the new cradle was about 2mm too narrow so the original mounting shaft would NOT fit down inside the ski. A gentle tap with a hammer opened both of them up wide enough to allow it to slide into place smoothly.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20912

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20918

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20919

christopher
01-13-2011, 04:22 PM
With both skis mounted I quickly noticed that all was not well.
The Left ski was almost perfectly flat, while the right ski was 15 Degrees tip up.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20915

I removed both skis, took out the rubber bushings and rotated both of them 180 degrees and remounted the skis. This left both skis with about a 5 degree Tip Up orientation.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20916

christopher
01-13-2011, 04:30 PM
Finished Installation.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=20920

Summitseeker
01-13-2011, 07:01 PM
Wow! That is the most detailed install I have EVER seen for something so simple! Nice work! :face-icon-small-hap

I heard mine have shipped but they have not arrived.

christopher
01-13-2011, 07:36 PM
Ya, Well, What the heck, its EASY to take a couple extra minutes and walk through the whole process. And digital photos are Free, so you might as well have high resolution ones just so there is NO question in anyone's mind what they are getting.

The one thing I HATE about the internet is NOT being able to see/handle/touch the new merchandise that your ordering, so when I got into internet marketing I made sure that my customers would get as close to the in store experience with my online store as possible. That tradition has spilled over into my reviews.


TOMORROW the testing begins.

noob
01-13-2011, 08:43 PM
had 6 pairs of gen 3's sitting in my garage today. 4 of them will be out putting to the test tomorrow.

blackhillsnytro
01-13-2011, 10:00 PM
Thanks for another good write up. Always a good job on these, gives a person a good idea on install processes.

christopher
01-15-2011, 08:25 AM
Will know how these skis work in about an hour as we all head out for today's forum ride.

sled-fiend
01-15-2011, 11:07 PM
Good write up, any more ride reports yet? I just got mine installed today:face-icon-small-hap

shmuckaluck
01-16-2011, 10:21 AM
Hey guys,
Man, the genII's and genIII's are just complete eye sore's, they are very heavy and only good for one thing, going strait. why would you add weight and take away maneuverability of the sled. and they look silly, like 28 inch wheels on a monte carlo. just my 2 cents, thats what this is about right?

Tige
01-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Got the new Gen3's home thursday night - I think they look pretty nice myself. Went riding Friday and in my opinion they worked really well. They track excellent. I ride a Turbo Apex - I have had stockers to the Gen2's and now to these.
I would have to say i like these the best of the three sets. I realy like the fact is when you turn - they fricken turn!! The width of the ski is now proportional to the over all look of the machine. The Gen 2's looked goofy.

All in all - I think they did a great job. Only my opinion of course.

Ryan

Summitseeker
01-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Just got mine as well. Won't get a chance to test them out until next weekend.

noob
01-16-2011, 05:30 PM
Got the Gen 3's all mounted up. ready to try them out this weekend. Hope I like them as much as you did Tige. Heard it rained on you guys out there.

christopher
01-17-2011, 04:59 PM
REVIEW

Last week I got the new skis mounted and this weekend I had a chance to ride with them for a couple days.

Initial Thoughts.

#1.
I found there to be little or no difference in on trail performance.
My Nytro took just as much effort to force through a corner with the Gen III skis as it did with the OEM skis. This was something I was "hoping" might be reduced as the weight of the sled is felt strongly on the front skis when going through a tight turn on a trail.

#2.
I was quite surprised to find that I can now turn the skis at a stand still. With the OEM skis, it has always been a HUGE pain to try and turn the skis while the sled is at a stand still. In many cases it was just not possible to make a hard right or left turn while stationary. The Gen III skis were perfectly happy to pivot in place every single time I asked them to. This was totally unexpected and a very welcome surprise.

#3.
The off trail performance of the skis was good, but I don't yet know if they were great. At best we have about 6 inches of fresh powder to play in, and for the most part they behaved pretty much like the OEM skis. Though, when we found patches of deeper powder the sled "felt" like it had more flotation and was more willing to do what I asked it. On a normal weekend with my Nytro I will get well stuck several times just from a combination of tunnel trenching and the front end being high centered. That did not happen at all this weekend, I just don't know yet if the skis were the reason or not.

#4.
So far as I could tell, they did not make it any easier to roll the sled over and get up on a single ski. But again, we really didn't have any deep powder to play in, and 6 inches just isn't enough for a nytro to really revel in. If I had to guess, I would say it felt just a little bit harder to roll the sled over on one ski than it did with the OEM ski.


So, I will reserve my final review on these skis till I have a few more days of riding on them.

But, just for the added ease in being able to pivot the skis at a standstill, that alone makes these skis better than the OEM in my book. Its a little thing, no doubt, but it makes the sled more nimble and more enjoyable to ride. And I do think the added width is contributing to better flotation as well.

And one last comment.
Having the twin keel design may be a huge blessing for my driveway and garage floor. The twin keels reduce the weight on the carbides and it "seems" to be leaving less scars, and goes into and out of the trailer easier as well....

2Thetopp
01-17-2011, 05:57 PM
Nice that you gave an honest review, alot of times people tend to say whatever product they spent money on is the latest or greatest whether it is or not. Now I've never thought of asking my skis to do what I wanted them to do :face-icon-small-hap, usually reserve that conversation for my golf ball.:face-icon-small-win have to try it next time I'm on the snow.

christopher
01-18-2011, 01:16 PM
GOLF !!
The ultimate form of Self Abuse!!!

At least with snowmobiling there is a chance that I can solve the problem with technology. With Golf you can't blame it on anything other than yourself.

2Thetopp
01-18-2011, 05:59 PM
GOLF !!
The ultimate form of Self Abuse!!!

At least with snowmobiling there is a chance that I can solve the problem with technology. With Golf you can't blame it on anything other than yourself.

Unfortunately it's one of my three addictions, Snowmobiling, Golf, and Snowest! :face-icon-small-ton

christopher
01-21-2011, 12:20 PM
well, your in good company.
Most of the guys at the office at SnoWest spend their summer on the Golf Course as well.

tfrick821
01-21-2011, 12:20 PM
What do you guys recommend for ski alingment? I believe yamaha specs .25" toe-out correct? What works best for simmons skis?

Summitseeker
01-22-2011, 10:41 PM
I put 147 KM on the new Gen III skis today! Love them on the trail and the hill! Very happy with my purchase!

christopher
01-24-2011, 07:38 PM
Had a chance to play with my new GEN III's quite a bit more OFF TRAIL this last Saturday. And there is no doubt but that these skis out perform the OEM skis.

The more I ride on them the more I am liking them in multiple different conditions.!!

rmk stu
09-21-2011, 09:58 PM
I am considering buying a pair of Gen 3's and was wondering if you had anything else to ad to your review? I currently have a set of Gen 2's and love the float I get but hate the hard steering. Does the Gen 3 steer easier then Gen 2? Any input from anybody would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Stu

christopher
09-21-2011, 10:20 PM
As part of installing the new Skinz Protective Gear "Concept A-Arms" next month, I plan on doing a side cut on my Gen III's

The only drawback to these skis that I found is that they were not super easy to roll the sled over on.

One of the other members on SnoWest posted a thread about how he had done the side cut on the outside edge of the skis and what a huge different it made in the sidehilling ability.

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:06 PM
After only a 5 month delay I finally got this little project done and off my list!!


This is our patient.
The tail end of the Simon Flexi Ski, Gen III
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24196


I started off by measuring back 1 inch from the mounting plate and marking the side wall of the ski
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24197


Then coming IN 1.5 inches from the side wall and marking a 2nd line.
This is APX. the location of the keel on the underside.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24198


And I marked the line all the way to the tail end to follow with the Jig Saw.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24199

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:08 PM
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24200


Flipped the ski over the made the same mark on the bottom.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24201

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24202

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24203


And traced out the appx. radius curve I wanted to follow.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24204

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:15 PM
Picked up a new jigsaw for today's project.
NOTE.
Having a SCROLLING JIGSAW came in REALLY handy when I discovered that I could NOT get the foot in close enough to the Keel to make the final radius cut...

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24205


Totally LOVED the little laser it came with.!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24206

First cut come straight in to the Keel edge.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24208

2nd cut was down the length of the ski
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24210

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24209


You will notice a 2nd white line in the above photo.
I traced TWO lines on the ski.
The 2nd line was where I "Thought" the cut would "Look" better, and I had considered going back and making a 2nd cut after the first measured trim was done. But in the end, I did NOT use this as the location of the Keel on the bottom of the ski completely controls where the cut has to be made.

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:19 PM
The only hard part about this project is making this radius cut.
I blew threw a few blades on this trying to figure it out.
In the end the SCROLL feature solved the problem!

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24213

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24214

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24215

File, File, File and then go back and FILE some more!
I used several different files to round the corner out and then to smooth all the sharp edges on the entire length of the ski cut.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24216

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24217

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24218

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24219

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:22 PM
One you finish filing all this plastic down, then its time to heat it up a little and really smooth it out.

1 Propane torch.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24220

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24221


Ran the torch back and forth many many times.
Getting it just hot enough to get soft, but NOT to melt of run.
Reminded me of my days working in a ski shop doing tuneup on downhill skis. Gotta just love that smell!:face-icon-small-hap
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24222


Nice and SMOOTH!
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24223

christopher
10-29-2011, 05:23 PM
The finished product.
Total time, about 1 hour for me.
Probably less for someone that knew what they were doing in advance

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1821&pictureid=24224

shredder
12-16-2011, 09:38 AM
Do you think these skis make the sled harder to tip over than the stockers?

800tundra
02-04-2012, 07:20 AM
What's the ride report on these? Cutouts make a difference? Would like Something a little easier on the arms and shoulders than the Gen II's I am running.

dennis
02-06-2012, 07:50 PM
I am considering buying a pair of Gen 3's and was wondering if you had anything else to ad to your review? I currently have a set of Gen 2's and love the float I get but hate the hard steering. Does the Gen 3 steer easier then Gen 2? Any input from anybody would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Stu

An elephant turns easier than Gen II's. I finally took them off my '08 XP, too damn tired end of day on trail back to trailer. Dennis

christopher
02-06-2012, 09:27 PM
I changed out my front suspension to a new Skinz "Concept A-Arms", did the side cut on the skis and mounted them at the narrowest position on the spindle.

All in all this has made a significant change for the better in over all handling.

I have not yet had an opportunity to try and real sidehilling to see how the side cut really performs yet. But I certainly have seen NO negative impact.

ALAYAM
02-08-2012, 06:59 AM
I just bought a used set of simmons gen I flexi-skis and they have 2 bolt holes to mount the skis. I don't know witch hole l should use for 80% trail riding ? Can anyone tell me the difference in the 2 holes ? Thanks

jw3210
04-04-2012, 09:18 AM
What's the ride report on these? Cutouts make a difference? Would like Something a little easier on the arms and shoulders than the Gen II's I am running.

As mentioned by others the problem is weight. My nitro with original skis and Dooley’s need a hydraulic press to turn at a standstill. The answer for Yamaha is power steering for all their sleds.:lever:

BackCountryBob
04-05-2012, 03:14 PM
As mentioned by others the problem is weight. My nitro with original skis and Dooley’s need a hydraulic press to turn at a standstill. The answer for Yamaha is power steering for all their sleds.:lever:

X2

BCB

BackCountryBob
04-06-2012, 09:48 PM
I cut my old Gen 1 similar to yours and am looking forward to your analysis.

BCB